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Guide/Compendium: Herman Miller Embody Creaks, Squeaks, and Noises
Guide/Compendium: Herman Miller Embody Creaks, Squeaks, and NoisesI am writing this in hopes that the text will be useful for people who are about to order an Embody—and for people who encountered some of the problems and wonder if said problems will go away or they should get their money back. I've wasted an unhealthy amount of time searching for solutions for some of the problems that are apparently common for a $1500+ chair (costs way more where I live), so hopefully, I can save some time for others.
Please consider not downvoting or otherwise trashing the post if your experience has been stellar—and do share and link back if you had some of the issues as well.
TL;DR Herman Miller Embody seems like a badly engineered chair with some questionable design decisions, with problems that might seem unfitting the price tag. Most of the problems come from engineering, not from the build quality. It looks like HM dealers know about all this.
You should not get one if you think a premium-priced item should feel premium. Don't get one if you are easily annoyed by imperfections, or you can't stand high-pitched sounds, or if you are a podcaster, audiophile, or musician. Read all the positive and negative reviews, sit in one, don't buy if you don't like it, return if you don't like it.
There is a list of well-known problems with Embody (plastic "poking" at your back or bottom, bad armrests), but this post is about a different, less-known list of issues.
All the experience comes from my short two-week ownership of a Herman Miller Embody chair, made in the U.S.A. in early 2020, bought from an official dealer. In those two weeks, I've managed to encounter all of the following problems. I had a service engineer visit me and check the chair, and I've spent some time chatting with managers.
Creaks and squeaks?I find it perfectly normal when a chair squeaks a little, especially when you rock it back and forward a lot, especially after many years of usage.
Loudness. I have an IKEA Markus that is about 7 years old. A cheap, go-to chair. Of course, it squeaks. However, Embody produces far more loud noise that is significantly more annoying, being brand new with absolutely no wear.
Reason. Again, I think that it is fine when you hear a squeak or two when you recline in your chair. Embody, however, makes loud noise all the time. When you rock forward, when you rock back. When you shift your weight forward or backward. When you shift your weight to the left or to the right.
A chair that is designed to force correct posture can make loud creaking noises when you change your posture. A chair that promotes micro-movements makes audible, annoying squeaks every time you move. Worse than a cheap, old chair.
UPDATE 2020-10: It is now clear that Embody creaking and squeaking problems are by design and might not lead to exchange or repair by the dealer. I've been told by a person working at a Herman Miller dealership that Herman Miller UK considers squeaks and creaks a normal mode of operation, since the chair is extremely complicated and has a ton of plastic parts constantly in motion. Therefore, there is a chance that if you encounter those problems, the chair won't get repaired or exchanged.
Problem 1. Creaking noises near the seat adjustment handles.That's a fairly common one, shown in the following videos. Thanks to fellow redditors, including archon810:
Sometimes it helps to adjust the length of the seat pan, but there is no system to it: it may creak on max length, it may creak on mid-length, it may not creak in the evening but starts creaking in the morning. I would guess it also may get worse if your weight is a bit more than the "usual person" (200 lbs or so, still way smaller than the official 300 lbs), or if your legs are larger and you put some of your weight on top of the edges of the seat.
Lots of people, including Redditors, reported that using a silicone lubricant (WD-40 or the likes), as well as tightening all the bolts, helps. User Tony Thomas on YouTube, in his comments to one of the videos, links to this schema and says that the problem is in the metallic part numbered 14, under the seat:
Maybe if you lube it, things get better. I guess, if you develop the problem over time—months or years—and if you're comfortable with DIY-ing a $1500+ chair.
Service Engineer: He examined the whole seat, took some parts apart (including the part mentioned before), examined everything again, and put it back together. According to him and his report, everything was more or less perfect, the chair was brand new, and the problems I've described and shown to him (exactly like in the first video) are expected with this kind of chair. Moreover, he hinted that problems could become worse with time. He also advised me to stop caring about those sounds at all (he was not mocking me, that felt sincere).
Problem 2. Squeaking or "rubbery" noise when rocking the chair, from near where the seat adjustment handles meet layers of rubber and plastic.I don't have videos of this one, but I can't imagine no one had it. Maybe it's just something unfortunate users of Embody "mix" with problem no. 1.
Again, it does not have a specific system to it, but it is very often I was able to hear loud squeaking noise, like somebody is trying to destroy a piece of rubber, from underneath the front edges of my seat. Apparently, the layers of plastic-rubber-plastic are in constant friction against each other, especially when you start rocking back and forward, and the seat pan moves a little bit. I was even able to replicate the sound by touching/flexing the rubber piece of the seat pan. The ability to replicate might have something to do with the temperature in your room: the sound is definitely more pronounced in the colder mornings and gets less annoying when the materials become warmer after all the movement—just a theory.
Service Engineer: ditto. Since the problem is basically with the same part of the chair, he said that, unfortunately, some squeaks and looseness is to be expected, but the item itself is built properly with no defects.
Problem 3. Embody springs "popping" in the back of the seat, like you're seating on an old, faulty spring sofaThe problem I'm talking about started happening after a week or so, but I've seen some reports on it online as well. Guess the chance of getting this problem depends on how far back you sit (and you're supposed to sit really far back, this is a posture-correcting chair, remember?), and how much you weight.
The seat pan of the Embody resembles a spring mattress—or a sofa—just made all out of plastic parts. Basically, I've started noticing springs "pop" in the far back of my seat after I start rocking my chair and move back forward. Every now and then, on the move forward to the upright position, I could feel a spring popping on my left or right side of the butt, so to say, or even to feel the whole row of springs to pop back. That is, on a new, over-engineered chair.
I'm not 100% sure of the reason, but there is an explanation. If you turn an Embody chair around and look at the back, you can see two massive bolts at the seat level. Those bolts end under the seat pan, where they stick out for about half an inch, maybe. Apparently, when you rock back in your chair and put enough pressure on the back of the seat pan by, well, sitting on it, the strings that hold the spring system may interfere with said bolts, resulting in some tension and that "popping" feeling when you rock back. This was impossibly annoying for me, maybe even worse than the noises and creaking.
As with other issues, this seems like an engineering issue, and you can barely do anything with it; yours may show with time, depending on your weight and if you sit correctly instead of slouching.
Service Engineer: checked the seat pan and spring system thoroughly and did not see any defects. They were working as intended.
Problem 4. Friction and abrasion of the rubber parts in the seat.Take a look at an Embody chair that has been in use for some time. In my case, two weeks was enough.
Look at the side of the seat pan, near the adjustment handles. Try to spread the big rubbery "lip" in the front and lift it a little bit. You will see a piece of rubber at the top, guarding and cushioning the seat pan edges, and a bolt head underneath it. You will also most likely see white markings at the top of that rubber piece, where it was in contact with the bolt—even some rubber crusts.
Most likely, that is because every time you rock in your chair, the seat pan moves a little, and rubber comes in contact with said bolt, destroying the rubber in the process. My two weeks were enough to see some crusts. Wonder if, with several years of usage, you can make a proper hole there.
Service Engineer: was taken by surprise, but basically stated that shit happens and nothing is engineered perfectly—something along those lines. Can't blame him.
Warranty and ReplacementNow, an obvious question: what about warranty and replacement? 12 years warranty for the whole unit, right?
First things first, even before I had the service engineer over, I've been asked to consider swapping my Embody for an Aeron. On average, "maybe try Aeron" was mentioned to me both by managers and an engineer every two or three minutes. Unfortunately, as I've explained, I'm a bit between sizes, and that leads to complaints and returns—customers complain about their legs and thighs hurting no matter if they get B or C size. They agreed—they are well aware of the Aeron sizing problem.
One other thing I'd like to mention: I think the official 300 lbs weight limit is not true. Sure, it won't crack under massive people, that's what it probably means. However, I'm pretty sure that you will get a chair with fewer problems (creaks and such) if you are 150-170 lbs.
Now, the engineer examined my chair and pronounced it defect-free. They were willing to replace it with a new one, but here's an important detail:
They were willing to make a replacement to keep me a happy customer, *not* because the unit is defective. All of the problems above are considered a normal mode of operation. Not quality or build problems of a specific item.
Still, we scheduled a replacement for me. Before they could even finish the delivery and properly unpack everything, they've asked me to try it out right at the spot and see if it is different. The service engineer who came was nice enough to give me very, very bold hints that those problems will appear again after months and years of usage, that the construction of the chair is exactly the same, that—again—I should consider Aeron or Mirra. I can get a hint: they basically did everything except directly telling me that the chair is badly engineered and there is no way a new one will work as I expect. So, I've returned my Embody.
They Know!I think they are well aware. Experienced Herman Miller representatives know Embody creaks and squeaks. They know they can't do anything about it other than handling in a new unit that will start to do the exact same thing. Or, trying to downplay it with "try not to notice the sound", or "it is because you don't have any noise in your apartment, and it's an office chair" (an actual thing said to me once). They were asking if they can replace my Embody with an Aeron as soon as I said something about squeaking, even before sending in the help to check the problem.
I am now sure this is a known issue to them, much like the issue with Aeron hurting people who are between B and C sizes. Embody is in production for 11 years, and it seems that nothing has changed in this regard; you tolerate this kind of build, or you return or sell your chair.
Great serviceOne good thing with my experience is that I was amazed by my Herman Miller dealer. I was not talking to HM directly but to a local dealership. They had great, knowledgeable sales representatives, and I somehow assumed all the nice things would end after I pay for my chair. Nope. Not only were they willing to do a replacement and send a service engineer over, but they were also nice enough to offer actual good advice (getting a different chair model), and even extended my money-back period for several days. They've done everything except for dissing the chair or Herman Miller itself.
No matter how bad the Embody is, my experience is that Herman Miller's service and support is one of the best I've encountered. Because of that, I'm probably open to trying Aeron C sometime in the future.